Who was the idiot(s) who decided the four BEST teams should be in the CFP

I truly believe that if Georgia

Post by JE Corbett
had won the SEC, they would have selected the four unbeaten conference
champions and left Texas out. Georgia losing cost FSU a spot in the playoffs
and there is no way to justify that.

I truly believe you are wrong. FSU was going to be 5 either way and they can than TCU for that.

JGibson

2023-12-04 17:59:07 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
I truly believe that if Georgia

I truly believe you are wrong. FSU was going to be 5 either way and they can than TCU for that.

What does TCU have to do with FSU's chance of making the playoffs? First, TCU is in the Big 12, so that would have brought the wrath down on Texas. But Texas clearly was in based on their win over Alabama. Second, although TCU got totally blown out in the finals last year, they had to win a semifinal game to get there.

Michael Falkner

2023-12-04 19:00:15 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
I truly believe that if Georgia

I truly believe you are wrong. FSU was going to be 5 either way and they can than TCU for that.

How much money did ESPN lose by TCU's obliteration last finals?

That's what.

And the fact Michigan got obliterated indicated we didn't need a 4-team playoff last year.

Mike

JGibson

2023-12-04 19:14:43 UTC

Post by Michael Falkner

Post by JE Corbett
I truly believe that if Georgia

I truly believe you are wrong. FSU was going to be 5 either way and they can than TCU for that.

How much money did ESPN lose by TCU's obliteration last finals?
That's what.
And the fact Michigan got obliterated indicated we didn't need a 4-team playoff last year.
Mike

We didn't any playoff last year to tell us that Georgia was #1. But that's not how it works. And again, how are you going to prevent blowouts in the finals? TCU earned its spot there by winning the semifinal against the Big Ten champion.

The NOTBCS Guy

2023-12-04 20:24:55 UTC

"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Oh, wait...my mistake...those are the principles and procedures for establishing the men's basketball tournament bracket. Nobody seems to mind that they don't choose the "most deserving" or "best when you look at their entire body of work" at-large teams. After all, they don't play the tournament over the entire season - just at the end.

Michael Falkner

2023-12-04 21:44:53 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.
Oh, wait...my mistake...those are the principles and procedures for establishing the men's basketball tournament bracket. Nobody seems to mind that they don't choose the "most deserving" or "best when you look at their entire body of work" at-large teams. After all, they don't play the tournament over the entire season - just at the end.

Which is one of the reasons that same committee will look at the last 5 or 10 games as either a tiebreaker for seeding or to get in.

Mike

Con Reeder, unhyphenated American

2023-12-05 15:19:14 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

More precisely:

For purposes of any four-team playoff, the process will
inevitably need to select the four best teams from among
several with legitimate claims to participate.

Note the acknowledgement that there might be teams left out which
have legitimate claims to participate. As with FSU.

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
Oh, wait...my mistake...those are the principles and procedures for
establishing the men's basketball tournament bracket. Nobody seems to
mind that they don't choose the "most deserving" or "best when you
look at their entire body of work" at-large teams. After all, they
don't play the tournament over the entire season - just at the end.

And they have a delineated list of criteria they use to make this
choice of who to sadly leave out. Looks to me like they did their
job just as they stated they would do from the get-go.

--
"The formula for achieving a successful relationship is simple: you
should treat all disasters as if they were trivialities but never
treat a triviality as if it were a disaster." -- Quentin Crisp

JE Corbett

2023-12-05 18:05:39 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

For purposes of any four-team playoff, the process will
inevitably need to select the four best teams from among
several with legitimate claims to participate.
Note the acknowledgement that there might be teams left out which
have legitimate claims to participate. As with FSU.

And they have a delineated list of criteria they use to make this
choice of who to sadly leave out. Looks to me like they did their
job just as they stated they would do from the get-go.
--
"The formula for achieving a successful relationship is simple: you
should treat all disasters as if they were trivialities but never
treat a triviality as if it were a disaster." -- Quentin Crisp

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players
to injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not
an excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not
penalized. On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP commences, FSU would have their QB2 back
as a starter. If they are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in their season ending rivalry game with
Florida, why didn't they downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against Auburn which they won on
fluke play and ridiculously poor defense by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to New Mexico
State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for the Iron Bowl.

FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the CFP committee should resign and none of them
should be allowed on the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Corky

2023-12-05 21:28:53 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players
to injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not
an excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not
penalized. On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP commences, FSU would have their QB2 back
as a starter. If they are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in their season ending rivalry game with
Florida, why didn't they downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against Auburn which they won on
fluke play and ridiculously poor defense by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to New Mexico
State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the CFP committee should resign and none of them
should be allowed on the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team that lost to Kentucky.

JE Corbett

2023-12-05 21:43:58 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players
to injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not
an excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not
penalized. On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP commences, FSU would have their QB2 back
as a starter. If they are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in their season ending rivalry game with
Florida, why didn't they downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against Auburn which they won on
fluke play and ridiculously poor defense by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to New Mexico
State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the CFP committee should resign and none of them
should be allowed on the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current top ten without Jordan.

That shouldn't be the criteria for selecting the teams. FSU earned the right to compete. They were one of the three most
accomplished teams in the country along with Michigan and Washington. They did more than Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
They went undefeated and won a Power 5 championship. None of the other three can say that.

They were barely able to score on a team that lost to Kentucky.

Alabama needed a miracle to beat a team that got rolled by New Mexico State. If you are going to downgrade FSU for
barely beating Louisville, shouldn't you do the same for Alabama for barely beating Auburn? At least Louisville had a winning
record, was ranked in the top 25, and qualified for their conference championship. You can't say any of those things about
Auburn.

j***@mich.com

2023-12-06 14:22:38 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players
to injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not
an excuse for failing to reach your goals.

Losing the quarterback is not just losing "a" player, it's losing the most important player by far. FSU backup QBs are far from plug and play
and FSU is nowhere as good now as they were.

Post by JE Corbett
That shouldn't be the criteria for selecting the teams. FSU earned the right to compete. They were one of the three most
accomplished teams in the country along with Michigan and Washington.

What about Liberty? Don't they have as much claim as FSU? Didn't they do everything FSU did and go 13-0?
How do we choose between FSU and Liberty? Why aren't you concerned about the fact that Liberty got hosed?

Post by JE Corbett
They did more than Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
They went undefeated and won a Power 5 championship. None of the other three can say that.

No, but the others can say they played top ten teams. Alabama played two top 6 teams. FSU didn't play a single top team. They went undefeated
against an easy schedule. Big whoop.

Post by JE Corbett
They were barely able to score on a team that lost to Kentucky.
Alabama needed a miracle to beat a team that got rolled by New Mexico State. If you are going to downgrade FSU for
barely beating Louisville, shouldn't you do the same for Alabama for barely beating Auburn?

Alabama was just going through the motions against a mediocre team and looking ahead to Georgia. Playing such a sloppy game
indeed almost cost them. The play itself was not a miracle, it was a 1st string quarterback making a pass typical at this level of college.
The miracle was the prevent defense called by Auburn. The quarterback knew from the start of the play they likely had a TD.
That's the point, FSU cannot make plays like this one anymore and they proved it in the last few games.

Anyway, if you knew anything about football, you'd know Alabama-Auburn is not a normal game. Records abd rankings mean little.
The emotions and motivation are way, way differrent than those in a game aginst Louisville.

JE Corbett

2023-12-06 15:15:19 UTC

Losing the quarterback is not just losing "a" player, it's losing the most important player by far. FSU backup QBs are far from plug and play
and FSU is nowhere as good now as they were.

Post by JE Corbett
They did more than Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
They went undefeated and won a Power 5 championship. None of the other three can say that.

No, but the others can say they played top ten teams. Alabama played two top 6 teams. FSU didn't play a single top team. They went undefeated
against an easy schedule. Big whoop.

Why should we only grade a team by their offense. Why shouldn't a stifling defense be given the same weight as a high
powered offense. Special teams matter too. How you win a game shouldn't matter. What matters is that you win. Neither
Alabama nor FSU was impressive in their rivalry game but only one got dinged for it by the committee.

Post by j***@mich.com
Anyway, if you knew anything about football, you'd know Alabama-Auburn is not a normal game. Records abd rankings mean little.
The emotions and motivation are way, way differrent than those in a game aginst Louisville.

FSU's rivalry game is with Florida, the last regular season of the game. That rivalry is just as fierce and means as much to the players as the Iron Bowl does to Alabama and Auburn. Neither Alabama nor FSU was overly impressive in their rivalry game
but both managed to win against a mediocre opponent. Alabama beat the better team in their conference championship but
FSU won by a larger margin. Using the strength of record metric, FSU had a better season than Alabama and that is what
should matter. Not whether feathers would be ruffled if the SEC got shut out of the playoff.

Michael Falkner

2023-12-06 15:18:00 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
Why should we only grade a team by their offense.

ESPN and it's mantra of football: It's All About The Quarterback.

Mike

JE Corbett

2023-12-06 15:28:55 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
Why should we only grade a team by their offense.

ESPN and it's mantra of football: It's All About The Quarterback.

Fortunately, the NFL doesn't vote a team out of the playoffs if they have lost their
starting QB. You get into the playoffs based on your record and nothing else. The
CFP chooses to make the selection process a beauty contest.

JGibson

2023-12-06 16:44:05 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
Why should we only grade a team by their offense.

ESPN and it's mantra of football: It's All About The Quarterback.

No matter how many playoff teams they add, it's going to be a bit of a beauty contest. There are 130+ FBS teams, and teams only play 12 games, 8-9 of them against a pretty small subset. So if you try to fit it as a matrix, it's going to be a very sparse matrix. The NFL has 32 teams and each team plays 17 games. While the matrix won't be completely filled like it would be in MLB or NBA, it's a pretty dense matrix. The NFL is basically going to be as well defined as an individual college conference against itself. All of FBS is going to remain ill-defined.

Michael Falkner

2023-12-06 21:56:00 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
Fortunately, the NFL doesn't vote a team out of the playoffs if they have lost their
starting QB. You get into the playoffs based on your record and nothing else. The
CFP chooses to make the selection process a beauty contest.

If they had the system, they would.

Example: NFC Championship 2022-23.

Mike

j***@mich.com

2023-12-06 17:20:41 UTC

Losing the quarterback is not just losing "a" player, it's losing the most important player by far. FSU backup QBs are far from plug and play
and FSU is nowhere as good now as they were.

Post by JE Corbett
They did more than Alabama, Texas, or Georgia.
They went undefeated and won a Power 5 championship. None of the other three can say that.

No, but the others can say they played top ten teams. Alabama played two top 6 teams. FSU didn't play a single top team. They went undefeated
against an easy schedule. Big whoop.

FSU's rivalry game is with Florida, the last regular season of the game. That rivalry is just as fierce and means as much to the players as the Iron Bowl does to Alabama and Auburn.

To FSU maybe, but Florida's big rivalry game has always been Georgia.

You didn't say why Liberty shouldn't have been considered for the playoffs. Are you really concerned that a 13-0 record should be the over-riding
consideration? Why aren't you upset about Liberty being hosed?

JGibson

2023-12-05 22:04:32 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players
to injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not
an excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not
penalized. On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP commences, FSU would have their QB2 back
as a starter. If they are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in their season ending rivalry game with
Florida, why didn't they downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against Auburn which they won on
fluke play and ridiculously poor defense by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to New Mexico
State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the CFP committee should resign and none of them
should be allowed on the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team that lost to Kentucky.

With their backup to a backup. The regular backup would be back by the time the playoffs start.

Con Reeder, unhyphenated American

2023-12-05 22:39:58 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you
are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players to
injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college
football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not an
excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes
injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not penalized.
On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP
commences, FSU would have their QB2 back as a starter. If they
are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in
their season ending rivalry game with Florida, why didn't they
downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against
Auburn which they won on fluke play and ridiculously poor defense
by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to
New Mexico State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for
the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the
CFP committee should resign and none of them should be allowed on
the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current
top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team
that lost to Kentucky.

With their backup to a backup. The regular backup would be back by the
time the playoffs start.

If the regular backup had lit it up when he played his game, that
might be an argument. But he was 12-25, 5.4 Y/A, 0 TD.

--
There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make
a big deal about your birthday. That time is age 12. -- Dave Barry

JGibson

2023-12-05 22:48:35 UTC

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you
are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players to
injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college
football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not an
excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes
injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not penalized.
On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP
commences, FSU would have their QB2 back as a starter. If they
are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in
their season ending rivalry game with Florida, why didn't they
downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against
Auburn which they won on fluke play and ridiculously poor defense
by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to
New Mexico State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for
the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the
CFP committee should resign and none of them should be allowed on
the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current
top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team
that lost to Kentucky.

With their backup to a backup. The regular backup would be back by the
time the playoffs start.

If the regular backup had lit it up when he played his game, that
might be an argument. But he was 12-25, 5.4 Y/A, 0 TD.

Well, then the committee should have dropped Florida State's ranking then. Instead they moved them up from #5 to #4 with Ohio State's loss.

Con Reeder, unhyphenated American

2023-12-06 02:23:32 UTC

Post by JGibson

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you
are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players to
injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college
football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not an
excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes
injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not penalized.
On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP
commences, FSU would have their QB2 back as a starter. If they
are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in
their season ending rivalry game with Florida, why didn't they
downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against
Auburn which they won on fluke play and ridiculously poor defense
by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to
New Mexico State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for
the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the
CFP committee should resign and none of them should be allowed on
the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current
top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team
that lost to Kentucky.

With their backup to a backup. The regular backup would be back by the
time the playoffs start.

If the regular backup had lit it up when he played his game, that
might be an argument. But he was 12-25, 5.4 Y/A, 0 TD.

Well, then the committee should have dropped Florida State's ranking
then. Instead they moved them up from #5 to #4 with Ohio State's loss.

There was the little matter of another week's play to deal with.
And if GA had won, I don't doubt that Texas would have been on
the outside looking in. But Alabama came in to eff that up, and
FSU was the odd team out.

--
We should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions
where ideas do not have to work in order to survive. -- Thomas Sowell

JE Corbett

2023-12-06 15:25:52 UTC

Post by JGibson

Post by The NOTBCS Guy
"The committee...selects the best teams." It says so in the Principles and Procedures for Establishing the Bracket.

Using player availability is as dumb a principle as saying you
are selecting the four best teams. Every team loses players to
injury. The phrase "next man up" has become a mantra in college
football. It is a way of saying losing a key player is not an
excuse for failing to reach your goals. A team that overcomes
injuries to achieve its goals should be rewarded, not penalized.
On top of that the committee ignores the fact that when the CFP
commences, FSU would have their QB2 back as a starter. If they
are going to downgrade FSU because they were unimpressive in
their season ending rivalry game with Florida, why didn't they
downgrade Alabama for a less than impressive performance against
Auburn which they won on fluke play and ridiculously poor defense
by Auburn. Auburn won only one more game than Florida and lost to
New Mexico State in what was supposed to be a tune up game for
the Iron Bowl.
FSU got cheated and there is no way to excuse it. Everyone on the
CFP committee should resign and none of them should be allowed on
the selection committed for next year's 12 team playoff.

Cry me a river. Florida State couldn't beat anyone in the current
top ten without Jordan. They were barely able to score on a team
that lost to Kentucky.

With their backup to a backup. The regular backup would be back by the
time the playoffs start.

If the regular backup had lit it up when he played his game, that
might be an argument. But he was 12-25, 5.4 Y/A, 0 TD.

Well, then the committee should have dropped Florida State's ranking
then. Instead they moved them up from #5 to #4 with Ohio State's loss.

I agree with that 100%. The committee didn't have the guts to shut the SEC out
of the playoff. Had Georgia won, they wouldn't have had that problem and could
have, should have, and would have put the four undefeated Power 5 champs
into the playoff. When Alabama won, they felt Alabama had to be the SEC selection
but it wouldn't look good putting Alabama in and leaving out the team that had
beat them so Alabama and Texas went in as a package deal. Both had been
ranked well behind FSU before the conference championship games and all
three won. So why should Alabama and Texas have jumped FSU? It was a
travesty.

j***@mich.com

2023-12-07 13:55:59 UTC

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 07:25:52 -0800 (PST), JE Corbett <***@gmail.com> wrote:

. So why should Alabama and Texas have jumped FSU? It was a

Post by JE Corbett
travesty.

Because in their last games of the season, their conference championships,

Alabama beat the #1 ranked team, a team that had won 29 straight and the last two NCs.

Texas crushed OK St with almost 700 yards total offense

FSU struggled agianst Louisville, a team that had just lost their previous game to a 5 loss team

Those were the last games before the final choices, and all 3 games were on national tv for all to see.
FSU needed a better game to keep their position. The concern was that FSU was not the same team
they had been, and that game confirmed it, while Texas and Alabama looked vey strong. Might have
had a better chance had the game not been nationally televised in prime time.

Con Reeder, unhyphenated American

2023-12-07 14:21:49 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
. So why should Alabama and Texas have jumped FSU? It was a

Post by JE Corbett
travesty.

Because in their last games of the season, their conference championships,
Alabama beat the #1 ranked team, a team that had won 29 straight and the last two NCs.
Texas crushed OK St with almost 700 yards total offense
FSU struggled agianst Louisville, a team that had just lost their previous game to a 5 loss team
Those were the last games before the final choices, and all 3 games were on national tv for all to see.
FSU needed a better game to keep their position. The concern was that FSU was not the same team
they had been, and that game confirmed it, while Texas and Alabama looked vey strong. Might have
had a better chance had the game not been nationally televised in prime time.

The fact that they are tasked with picking the four best teams put FSU out of it.

If Alabama had lost to UGA, it would have been easy to leave Texas out and
go with the four unbeatens. But when you have to put a 1-loss team in, and
you can't realistically shun the by-far-strongest conference, the SEC, FSU
is the odd team out.

All FSU has to do is beat UGA worse than Alabama did, and they can have
a world-class whining session that a lot of people will buy into. But if
they get toasted by UGA, they'll fade into the land of very small asterisks.

--
The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and
dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if
it had nothing else in the universe to do. -- Galileo

Michael Falkner

2023-12-07 19:36:48 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
. So why should Alabama and Texas have jumped FSU? It was a

Post by JE Corbett
travesty.

ESPN needs money. Badly.

Mike

Michael Falkner

2023-12-04 21:44:18 UTC

Just name the champion then. :)

That's about the only way you can.

The problem is that the Georgia semifinal WAS the final.

Mike

Michael Falkner

2023-12-04 18:59:31 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
I truly believe that if Georgia

I truly believe you are wrong. FSU was going to be 5 either way and they can than TCU for that.

If not 7 or 8.

Mike

michael anderson

2023-12-10 15:49:07 UTC

Post by JE Corbett
The four best teams is a completely subjective and arbitrary standard. There is
no way to measure that. What I think are the four best teams probably won't be
what somebody else thinks are the four best teams. Furthermore, if you were
to really put the four best teams in the playoff, you might have to put in a great
but underachieving team (Ohio State, Georgia?). In some years that could be
a team with two or three losses. There is no way to measure the four best.
What we can measure are accomplishments. By that criteria, Michigan,
Washington, FSU, and Texas would get the nod. The first three because they
are undefeated Power 5 conference champions and Texas would get the nod
over Alabama because they beat them head-t0-head.
The committee neither selected the four best teams nor the four most
accomplished teams. Their choices were political. They didn't want to ruffle
feathers by leaving the SEC out. They had to take Alabama over Georgia but
they couldn't justify putting Alabama in and leaving Texas out so they took
put them both in and gave the finger to FSU. I truly believe that if Georgia
had won the SEC, they would have selected the four unbeaten conference
champions and left Texas out.

I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.

Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.

I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it). So FSU is the odd team out, and the travis injury was their supposed cover.....

j***@mich.com

2023-12-11 21:33:23 UTC

I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it). So FSU is the odd team out, and the travis injury was their supposed cover.....

HTH doesn't necessarily yield the best team, often it doesn't. A lucky turnover, a bad call, etc. can keep the better team from winning. HTH is fun
for rivals and fans, but should not mean the winner must always and forever be ranked above the loser. The rest of the season must also be looked at,
especially closer to season end. Bowl game and conference championship rematches have demonstrated this many times. My favorite is FSU and UF in
1997. #2 FSU beat #1 Florida final game of the regular season by 3 points, a game when UF's entire offense line was out with injuries. Both were then
chosen as the best teams for the Sugar Bowl. Bowden shit, he knew the Gators were the better team, and FSU could likely win a NC against any other
team but lose one if they played the Gators. In the rematch with their line back, the Gators won by 32 points.

In 1993 #2 Notre Dame beat #1 FSU by intercepting an endzone pass at the end. Next game ND lost to #17 Boston College then beat #7 T-A&M by 3.
while FSU crushed NS State by 60, beat #6 UF and then #2 Nebraska, and there are still those who think ND should have jumped past FSU to #1. If ND and
FSU had played 10 times that season, it probably would have been 8-2 in FSU's favor. It's BS to think one close HTH meant ND should always be ranked
higher than FSU regardless of how the season progressed.

And, anyway, the pros demonstrate the insignificance of mid-season HTH regularly.

In the Texas-Alabama case, though, both teams had good seasons. Their HTH was first game and Alabama has gotten better as the season progressed, so it
will be interesting and good football if they get to play each other again.

JGibson

2023-12-12 15:54:03 UTC

I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it). So FSU is the odd team out, and the travis injury was their supposed cover.....

HTH doesn't necessarily yield the best team, often it doesn't. A lucky turnover, a bad call, etc. can keep the better team from winning. HTH is fun
for rivals and fans, but should not mean the winner must always and forever be ranked above the loser. The rest of the season must also be looked at,
especially closer to season end. Bowl game and conference championship rematches have demonstrated this many times. My favorite is FSU and UF in
1997. #2 FSU beat #1 Florida final game of the regular season by 3 points, a game when UF's entire offense line was out with injuries. Both were then
chosen as the best teams for the Sugar Bowl. Bowden shit, he knew the Gators were the better team, and FSU could likely win a NC against any other
team but lose one if they played the Gators. In the rematch with their line back, the Gators won by 32 points.
In 1993 #2 Notre Dame beat #1 FSU by intercepting an endzone pass at the end. Next game ND lost to #17 Boston College then beat #7 T-A&M by 3.
while FSU crushed NS State by 60, beat #6 UF and then #2 Nebraska, and there are still those who think ND should have jumped past FSU to #1. If ND and
FSU had played 10 times that season, it probably would have been 8-2 in FSU's favor. It's BS to think one close HTH meant ND should always be ranked
higher than FSU regardless of how the season progressed.
And, anyway, the pros demonstrate the insignificance of mid-season HTH regularly.

Nobody's arguing HTH is the be-all end-all. Otherwise, people would be arguing that Oklahoma should be in over Texas and then find themselves in a giant loop. The point is that HTH is used as a tie-breaker for close situations.

But if we are going to hold out teams that are worse but won their games from the postseason, why don't we nix Washington's place in the CFP and give it to Oregon? Sure Washington beat Oregon twice, but it was very close both times and the first time Washington was at home. 7 other data points from comparative Pac-12 games suggest that Oregon is actually the better team than Washington. And all the predictive computers agree: Oregon is a better team than Washington. But we don't reward on that, we reward on W-L.

j***@mich.com

2023-12-12 16:32:03 UTC

Post by JGibson

I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it). So FSU is the odd team out, and the travis injury was their supposed cover.....

HTH doesn't necessarily yield the best team, often it doesn't. A lucky turnover, a bad call, etc. can keep the better team from winning. HTH is fun
for rivals and fans, but should not mean the winner must always and forever be ranked above the loser. The rest of the season must also be looked at,
especially closer to season end. Bowl game and conference championship rematches have demonstrated this many times. My favorite is FSU and UF in
1997. #2 FSU beat #1 Florida final game of the regular season by 3 points, a game when UF's entire offense line was out with injuries. Both were then
chosen as the best teams for the Sugar Bowl. Bowden shit, he knew the Gators were the better team, and FSU could likely win a NC against any other
team but lose one if they played the Gators. In the rematch with their line back, the Gators won by 32 points.
In 1993 #2 Notre Dame beat #1 FSU by intercepting an endzone pass at the end. Next game ND lost to #17 Boston College then beat #7 T-A&M by 3.
while FSU crushed NS State by 60, beat #6 UF and then #2 Nebraska, and there are still those who think ND should have jumped past FSU to #1. If ND and
FSU had played 10 times that season, it probably would have been 8-2 in FSU's favor. It's BS to think one close HTH meant ND should always be ranked
higher than FSU regardless of how the season progressed.
And, anyway, the pros demonstrate the insignificance of mid-season HTH regularly.

Nobody's arguing HTH is the be-all end-all. Otherwise, people would be arguing that Oklahoma should be in over Texas and then find themselves in a giant loop. The point is that HTH is used as a tie-breaker for close situations.
But if we are going to hold out teams that are worse but won their games from the postseason, why don't we nix Washington's place in the CFP and give it to Oregon? Sure Washington beat Oregon twice, but it was very close both times and the first time Washington was at home. 7 other data points from comparative Pac-12 games suggest that Oregon is actually the better team than Washington. And all the predictive computers agree: Oregon is a better team than Washington. But we don't reward on that, we reward on W-L.

Agreed. But some do think HTH is all important. Others think w-l record is all important, regardless of SOS. None of it will matter much going forward
when there's actually a playoff.

JE Corbett

2023-12-16 12:16:40 UTC

I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it). So FSU is the odd team out, and the travis injury was their supposed cover.....

The silly thing about the HTH standard is by the end of the season, somebody has to be ranked above another team that
beat them. There's no getting around it. HTH only means on one particular day, one team was better than another. Does
that mean we should ignore the other 11 games? I remember the uproar back in the BCS days when Colorado rolled
Nebraska in their regular season finale and beat Texas in the Big 12 Championship but Nebraska narrowly made it into
the national championship game based on the BCS formula. It was because the BCS formula took into account all the
games both teams played. It had no recency bias other than what existed amongst the pollsters. Colorado had lost TWO
regular season games and that was their undoing. HTH is important, but it shouldn't be used as an eraser. Despite
Alabama beating Georgia, I think Georgia has been the better team over the course of the season and if they four best
teams had been selected, Georgia would have been one of thm.

Con Reeder, unhyphenated American

2023-12-16 15:34:29 UTC

I completely agree with this, and it wasn't talked about enough.
Alabama being thrown in the mix is probably what saved texas too.
I'm someone who believes that HTH doesn't *always* have to trump everything else(assuming similar number of losses). But a lot of people do, so when the committee decided that they had to take alabama due to the significant of the win against georgia(which is a reasonable stance in my opinion.....I mean you have to reward those type of wins, of which there was only 1 this year and only 1 every 3-4 years probably) they also decided they had to take Texas due to the HTH(or people would really lose it). So FSU is the odd team out, and the travis injury was their supposed cover.....

The silly thing about the HTH standard is by the end of the season,
somebody has to be ranked above another team that beat them. There's
no getting around it. HTH only means on one particular day, one team
was better than another. Does that mean we should ignore the other
11 games? I remember the uproar back in the BCS days when Colorado
rolled Nebraska in their regular season finale and beat Texas in the
Big 12 Championship but Nebraska narrowly made it into the national
championship game based on the BCS formula. It was because the BCS
formula took into account all the games both teams played. It had no
recency bias other than what existed amongst the pollsters. Colorado
had lost TWO regular season games and that was their undoing. HTH is
important, but it shouldn't be used as an eraser. Despite Alabama
beating Georgia, I think Georgia has been the better team over the
course of the season and if they four best teams had been selected,
Georgia would have been one of thm.

But you have to follow pre-agreed rules of assessment if you want to
avoid accusations of bias. The committee did a very good job of
conforming to those, so there are no real complaints. Sure FSU is
gonna whine; they kind of have to as a matter of fan service. But I
have seen very little real pushback, considering. Even FSU fans are
coming to terms with it.

If Georgia had beaten Alabama, does anyone question that we would
have had four undefeated teams in the CFP? Even though it would be
pretty clear that FSU was not one of the best teams minus their QB?
But the moment you have to let a one-loss team in, 1) you can't
exclude Alabama because you can't exclude the SEC, and 2) you can't
easily exclude Texas because they beat Alabama. FSU could be excluded
because of their QB. I really don't know what the committee would
have done if they didn't have that -- they would have had to negate
either 1) or 2) above.

If FSU whomps Georgia, they'll have a great time with their asterisk,
claiming they should have been national champions. I doubt that's
going to happen, though.

--
It is not true that people stop pursuing dreams
because they grow old, they grow old because they
stop pursuing dreams. -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez

JGibson

2023-12-16 17:56:50 UTC