Discussion:
Bill O'Reilly and the War on Christmas
(too old to reply)
Jon Enslin
2005-12-14 21:15:37 UTC
Permalink
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.

Jon
Jaybyrd
2005-12-14 21:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
Tony Rice
2005-12-14 22:31:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
Accuracy and religion have never really been the best of friends.
James Schrumpf
2005-12-14 23:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the house
at Christmas.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Ralph Kennedy
2005-12-14 23:47:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the house
at Christmas.
So what. Latter-day Christians stole the whole
tree thing from pagans, so it's amusing to watch the
more ignorant of the Christians running around all
indignant now because somebody else "stole" their
tree. What a joke.

Me, I call it a Christmas tree because that's
how I was raised. But I really don't give a flying
crap what anyone calls it, big whoop.

--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: ***@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 00:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Quiet, ***@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Ralph Kennedy) -- I'm transmitting
rage.
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the
house at Christmas.
So what. Latter-day Christians stole the whole
tree thing from pagans, so it's amusing to watch the
more ignorant of the Christians running around all
indignant now because somebody else "stole" their
tree. What a joke.
Me, I call it a Christmas tree because that's
how I was raised. But I really don't give a flying
crap what anyone calls it, big whoop.
According to Wikipedia:

"Among early Germanic tribes the Yule tradition was celebrated by
sacrificing male animals, and slaves, by suspending them on the branches
of trees. According to Adam of Bremen, in Scandinavia the pagan kings
sacrificed nine males of each species at the sacred groves every ninth
year. According to one legend, Saint Boniface attempted to introduce the
idea of trinity to the pagan tribes using the cone-shaped evergreen trees
because of their triangular appearance.

"The modern custom, however, cannot be proved to be descended from pagan
tradition directly. It can be traced to 16th century Germany: Ingeborg
Weber-Keller (Marburg professor of European ethnology) identified as the
earliest reference a Bremen guild chronicle of 1570 which reports how a
small fir was decorated with apples, nuts, dates, pretzels and paper
flowers, and erected in the guild-house, for the benefit of the guild
members' children, who collected the dainties on Christmas day."

So you can't really say that Christmas trees are a rip-off from any
druidical custom, given that dead people were hung from the druid-style
trees. A Christmas tree is an original.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
a***@yahoo.com
2005-12-15 00:51:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the house
at Christmas.
So what. Latter-day Christians stole the whole
tree thing from pagans, so it's amusing to watch the
more ignorant of the Christians running around all
indignant now because somebody else "stole" their
tree. What a joke.
Of course when someone sees a tree decroated with
lights and bows in someone's window on Dec. 25,
they really can't be sure if it is for Christmas or
some ancient, 3000 year-old pagan rite.

My neighbor isn''t really Jewish either. That's not a star
of David, he's running for sheriff.
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Me, I call it a Christmas tree because that's
how I was raised. But I really don't give a flying
crap what anyone calls it, big whoop.
-Tom Enright
Post by Ralph Kennedy
--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-15 17:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the house
at Christmas.
So what. Latter-day Christians stole the whole
tree thing from pagans, so it's amusing to watch the
more ignorant of the Christians running around all
indignant now because somebody else "stole" their
tree. What a joke.
Of course when someone sees a tree decroated with
lights and bows in someone's window on Dec. 25,
they really can't be sure if it is for Christmas or
some ancient, 3000 year-old pagan rite.
You certainly can't - or don't you ever have exposure to pagans or wiccans?
--
Aaron
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 21:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by a***@yahoo.com
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into
the house at Christmas.
So what. Latter-day Christians stole the whole
tree thing from pagans, so it's amusing to watch the
more ignorant of the Christians running around all
indignant now because somebody else "stole" their
tree. What a joke.
Of course when someone sees a tree decroated with
lights and bows in someone's window on Dec. 25,
they really can't be sure if it is for Christmas or
some ancient, 3000 year-old pagan rite.
You certainly can't - or don't you ever have exposure to pagans or wiccans?
The pagans didn't bring the tree into their homes and decorate it. They
killed animals and people as sacrifices and hung them from the tree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree#History

"Among early Germanic tribes the Yule tradition was celebrated by
sacrificing male animals, and slaves, by suspending them on the branches
of trees. According to Adam of Bremen, in Scandinavia the pagan kings
sacrificed nine males of each species at the sacred groves every ninth
year"

I think one might notice the difference.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Vijay Ramanujan
2005-12-15 21:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
The pagans didn't bring the tree into their homes and decorate it. They
Their idea of Christmas ornaments was just different from yours.
You hang pocorn balls, they hang Bob, from down the street.

Same thing.

Vijay R.
Glen Heiman
2005-12-15 01:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the house
at Christmas.
So what. Latter-day Christians stole the whole
tree thing from pagans, so it's amusing to watch the
more ignorant of the Christians running around all
indignant now because somebody else "stole" their
tree. What a joke.
Your logic, or lack of doesn't even make it to first base. It would make
sense if the Christians had made a concerted effort for all pagans to call
their tree a Christmas Tree, and made all references to the pagan's tree as
such and tried to remove any pagan references to that tree unless it was
"Christmas Tree".

However, the Christian's borrowed the pagan tradition and called the
CHRISTIAN'S tree a Christmas Tree.

Heiman
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Me, I call it a Christmas tree because that's
how I was raised. But I really don't give a flying
crap what anyone calls it, big whoop.
--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
Ralph Kennedy
2005-12-15 20:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80%
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays"
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the
house
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
at Christmas.
So what. Latter-day Christians stole the whole
tree thing from pagans, so it's amusing to watch the
more ignorant of the Christians running around all
indignant now because somebody else "stole" their
tree. What a joke.
Your logic, or lack of doesn't even make it to first base. It would make
sense if the Christians had made a concerted effort for all pagans to call
their tree a Christmas Tree, and made all references to the pagan's tree as
such and tried to remove any pagan references to that tree unless it was
"Christmas Tree".
However, the Christian's borrowed the pagan tradition and called the
CHRISTIAN'S tree a Christmas Tree.
So who's stopping you from calling it a Christmas
tree now, genus? The problem here is certain Christians
running around like the sky is falling because somebody
else calls the tree something the Christians don't like.
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Me, I call it a Christmas tree because that's
how I was raised. But I really don't give a flying
crap what anyone calls it, big whoop.
--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: ***@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-15 17:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the house
at Christmas.
I have.
--
Aaron
Jay Furr
2005-12-15 17:44:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by James Schrumpf
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the
house at Christmas.
I have.
Yeah, but you're the guy who ate Ted Kennedy's brothers.
--
"I wish people who had trouble communicating would just shut up."
-- Tom Lehrer

Sponsor me in the 2006 Special Olympics Vermont "Penguin Plunge":
http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/jayfurr
Edward M. Kennedy
2005-12-15 17:57:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay Furr
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by James Schrumpf
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the
house at Christmas.
I have.
Yeah, but you're the guy who ate Ted Kennedy's brothers.
Yo, Aaron, you wouldn't by chance happen to a spleen in
the freezer, would you?

--Tedward
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-15 19:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jay Furr
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by James Schrumpf
No one ever called it a "druid" tree when they brought one into the
house at Christmas.
I have.
Yeah, but you're the guy who ate Ted Kennedy's brothers.
MMMMMM alcoholicious....
--
Aaron
leinbacker
2005-12-15 01:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
Actually, it's more likely to be a pine.
Dennis
2005-12-15 15:03:36 UTC
Permalink
"leinbacker" <***@my-deja.com> You're digging it round,
when it aughta Be SQUARE
Post by leinbacker
Post by Jaybyrd
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
To be accurate it's a druid tree anyway.
Actually, it's more likely to be a pine.
or a fir...
--
"People who read the tabloids deserve to be lied to" - Jerry Seinfeld
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" - Will Durant
"We are drowning in information, while starving for wisdom." - E.O. Wilson
"the glass is not only half full the first half was delicious" --Me
To Reply: Scrape off the end bits...
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-14 22:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
I saw a hilarious interview with him...

The interviewer asked if people using "Merry Christmas" could be offensive
to non-Christians. His answer - "No, it just a couple words".

Later in the interview they asked if "Happy Holidays" is really offensive to
Christians. His answer "Absolutely".
--
Aaron
Jon Enslin
2005-12-14 22:11:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
I saw a hilarious interview with him...
The interviewer asked if people using "Merry Christmas" could be offensive
to non-Christians. His answer - "No, it just a couple words".
Later in the interview they asked if "Happy Holidays" is really offensive to
Christians. His answer "Absolutely".
You were watching "The Daily Show" weren't you...

Jon
Tony Rice
2005-12-14 22:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Later in the interview they asked if "Happy Holidays" is really
offensive to Christians. His answer "Absolutely".
You were watching "The Daily Show" weren't you...
Or the Colbert Report
Jefferson N Glapski
2005-12-15 03:32:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
I saw a hilarious interview with him...
The interviewer asked if people using "Merry Christmas" could be
offensive to non-Christians. His answer - "No, it just a couple
words".
Later in the interview they asked if "Happy Holidays" is really
offensive to Christians. His answer "Absolutely".
You were watching "The Daily Show" weren't you...
DYHTBQITHC ($1)
--
Jefferson N. Glapski
http://www.freealberta.com
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-15 17:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
I saw a hilarious interview with him...
The interviewer asked if people using "Merry Christmas" could be offensive
to non-Christians. His answer - "No, it just a couple words".
Later in the interview they asked if "Happy Holidays" is really offensive to
Christians. His answer "Absolutely".
You were watching "The Daily Show" weren't you...
Actually I saw it somewhere else first - the Daily Show just did a really
nice editing job to put the quotes together.
--
Aaron
estabanj
2005-12-14 22:07:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.

one thing i find funny about this is that many muslims and jews who are
strict "secularists" here in the USA, inisting on a very high wall of
separation between church and state, aren't nearly so uncomfortable with
the notion of - and often are quite financially supportive of -"jewish
states" and "islamic republics" back in the middle east.
--
"if federal judges have the final word over its meaning,
the Constitution would be a mere thing of wax in the hands
of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form
they please".

- Thomas Jefferson
Jon Enslin
2005-12-14 22:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.

Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...

I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.

Jon
Tony Rice
2005-12-14 22:32:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
Shh, that's a secret.
estabanj
2005-12-15 04:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
--
"I guess everybody thinks about old times,
even the happiest people".

"Some memories are realities, and are better
than anything that can ever happen to one again".

- Willa Cather, My Antonia
Ted
2005-12-15 05:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
Yeah I agree. That is a much more likely explanation than "market
forces" wanting to include the rather large non-christian population in
the people they peddle crap to. It's the vast * conspiracy!

A broader question: Is it even possible for a conspiracy to succeed in
this day and age? With the way the media digs out every shred of dirt
possible, I don't see it on a large scale.

Ted
stephenj
2005-12-15 15:16:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
Yeah I agree. That is a much more likely explanation than "market
forces" wanting to include the rather large non-christian population in
the people they peddle crap to.
makes no sense, because these companies peddled crap to everyone
-christians, jews, muslims, etc. - for decades while saying "merry
christmas". you have to explain what prompted the change to occur.
Post by Ted
It's the vast * conspiracy!
not vast, not a conspiracy (there's nothing wrong, legally speaking,
with doing this). just quiet back-room influence by religious leaders.
--
"if federal judges have the final word over its meaning,
the Constitution would be a mere thing of wax in the hands
of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form
they please".

- Thomas Jefferson
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 15:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenj
Post by Ted
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
Yeah I agree. That is a much more likely explanation than "market
forces" wanting to include the rather large non-christian population in
the people they peddle crap to.
makes no sense, because these companies peddled crap to everyone
-christians, jews, muslims, etc. - for decades while saying "merry
christmas". you have to explain what prompted the change to occur.
Don't cha think that these companies use secular phrases because they
think it maximizes profit? Obviously they use such phrases because
they are more effective otherwise they would switch back - there is
nothing preventing them from doing so.

You're supposedly a business professor, although admittedly at a
fourth-tier business school. I would think this would be obvious to
you.

Jon
Edward M. Kennedy
2005-12-15 16:22:55 UTC
Permalink
The free market laughs at right-wingers who have a problem
with how the market is mocking them.

--Tedward
Edward M. Kennedy
2005-12-15 16:24:58 UTC
Permalink
P.S. Vote with your dollars too, not just your mouth.

--Tedward
stephenj
2005-12-15 17:37:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
makes no sense, because these companies peddled crap to everyone
-christians, jews, muslims, etc. - for decades while saying "merry
christmas". you have to explain what prompted the change to occur.
Don't cha think that these companies use secular phrases because they
think it maximizes profit?
Sure. But remember that these companies have always wanted to maximize
profit. So why did they historically use MC not HH? Probably because
they felt MC was most congenial to profit maximization. Then, someone
convinced them that HH would be more congenial to profit maximization.

Now, o'reilly types are trying to disabuse them of that notion.
Post by Jon Enslin
Obviously they use such phrases because
they are more effective otherwise they would switch back - there is
nothing preventing them from doing so.
Exactly. If o'reilly et al. can make it clear that sticking with HH will
harm profits, they'll go back to MC.

How does this contradict anything i've previously said?
--
no excuses, play like a champion

- rule 76
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 18:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
makes no sense, because these companies peddled crap to everyone
-christians, jews, muslims, etc. - for decades while saying "merry
christmas". you have to explain what prompted the change to occur.
Don't cha think that these companies use secular phrases because they
think it maximizes profit?
Sure. But remember that these companies have always wanted to maximize
profit.
Really?
Post by stephenj
So why did they historically use MC not HH? Probably because
they felt MC was most congenial to profit maximization. Then, someone
convinced them that HH would be more congenial to profit maximization.
Now, o'reilly types are trying to disabuse them of that notion.
But they aren't going along. Why do you think that is???

Jon
stephenj
2005-12-15 22:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
So why did they historically use MC not HH? Probably because
they felt MC was most congenial to profit maximization. Then, someone
convinced them that HH would be more congenial to profit maximization.
Now, o'reilly types are trying to disabuse them of that notion.
But they aren't going along.
"Last week the AFA cancelled a boycott against Target Corp. after the
company said it would use the word "Christmas" in its advertising and
marketing, instead of something more holiday generic. The group claimed
700 000 people had signed up electronically to boycott Target."

So chalk one up for the christmas warriors.
Post by Jon Enslin
Why do you think that is???
.. because they aren't convinced. if they become convinced, they'll
change their tune.

look at what just happend with Ford and gays. Last may, the AFA said
they would boycott Ford for "promoting the gay marriage movement". Ford
responded last month by agreeing to cancel advertising in gay magazines,
so the AFA called off their boycott.

but then that caused gay groups to attack Ford, and so the other day
Ford reversed itself and said it would advertise in the gay magazines again.

why? probably because they figured they'd lose more money from a gay
boycott than a fundie boycott.

to deny all of this has a big component of power and struggle is simply
silly.
--
"I guess everybody thinks about old times,
even the happiest people".

"Some memories are realities, and are better
than anything that can ever happen to one again".

- Willa Cather, My Antonia
Michael
2005-12-15 12:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's 'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve
out of thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted* by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it
part of a cultural struggle for power.
Or it could be that certain Americans have the good manners to
include non-Christians in their good wishes.

-- Demoncrat
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 14:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
A "cultural struggle for power??" Good lored, could you get more
melodramatic?

Jon
stephenj
2005-12-15 15:17:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
A "cultural struggle for power??" Good lored, could you get more
melodramatic?
there's nothing melodramatic about that. there is a cultural struggle
for power in the USA, and this mc/hh thing is a skirmish in it.
--
--

"Look at any 'democratic' country, like America.
In these countries the real business of 'state' is carried
on by departments, staffs, and bureaus...Parliaments
are only places where chattering goes on with the purpose
of fooling the 'common people'."


- V.I. Lenin
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 15:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
A "cultural struggle for power??" Good lored, could you get more
melodramatic?
there's nothing melodramatic about that. there is a cultural struggle
for power in the USA, and this mc/hh thing is a skirmish in it.
Bullshit. There is no "cultural struggle." Culture changes and
evolves as it has for centuries.

And the "skirmish" that you mention is even more laughable when you
look at the history of the phrase. "Happy Holiday" was a song that was
written by Irving Berlin. The same Irving Berlin who wrote "White
Christmas" and "God Bless America."

Obviously a secularist heathen who was out to destroy Christmas.

Jon
stephenj
2005-12-15 15:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
A "cultural struggle for power??" Good lored, could you get more
melodramatic?
there's nothing melodramatic about that. there is a cultural struggle
for power in the USA, and this mc/hh thing is a skirmish in it.
Bullshit. There is no "cultural struggle."
You're kidding, right?
Post by Jon Enslin
Culture changes and
evolves as it has for centuries.
Yes, but not without struggle.
Post by Jon Enslin
And the "skirmish" that you mention is even more laughable when you
look at the history of the phrase. "Happy Holiday" was a song that was
written by Irving Berlin. The same Irving Berlin who wrote "White
Christmas" and "God Bless America."
of what relevance is this?
--
"My greatest delight is to mark my enemy,
avenge myself thoroughly, then go to sleep".

- Josef Stalin
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 15:44:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
A "cultural struggle for power??" Good lored, could you get more
melodramatic?
there's nothing melodramatic about that. there is a cultural struggle
for power in the USA, and this mc/hh thing is a skirmish in it.
Bullshit. There is no "cultural struggle."
You're kidding, right?
Post by Jon Enslin
Culture changes and
evolves as it has for centuries.
Yes, but not without struggle.
Post by Jon Enslin
And the "skirmish" that you mention is even more laughable when you
look at the history of the phrase. "Happy Holiday" was a song that was
written by Irving Berlin. The same Irving Berlin who wrote "White
Christmas" and "God Bless America."
of what relevance is this?
That the phrase "Happy Holidays" itself was never intended to be some
sort of secularist replacement for "Merry Christmas." It is just
another way to pass along greetings and goodwill during this time of
year.

And I will ask you, why does this bother you so much? Why do you care?
Do you feel that insecure and threatened?

Jon
stephenj
2005-12-15 17:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
And the "skirmish" that you mention is even more laughable when you
look at the history of the phrase. "Happy Holiday" was a song that was
written by Irving Berlin. The same Irving Berlin who wrote "White
Christmas" and "God Bless America."
of what relevance is this?
That the phrase "Happy Holidays" itself was never intended to be some
sort of secularist replacement for "Merry Christmas."
the intent behind berlin's song doesn't have much to do with the use of
HH by others, does it? It clearly *has* replaced MC ...
Post by Jon Enslin
It is just
another way to pass along greetings and goodwill during this time of
year.
It is that, but it isn't *just that*. If it were, why would anyone
suggest replacing MC - which is also another way to pass along
greetings, etc. with HH?
Post by Jon Enslin
And I will ask you, why does this bother you so much? Why do you care?
You're obviously more emotionally riled up about this than i am, so why
not start by answering these questions yourself?
--
no excuses, play like a champion

- rule 76
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 18:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
And the "skirmish" that you mention is even more laughable when you
look at the history of the phrase. "Happy Holiday" was a song that was
written by Irving Berlin. The same Irving Berlin who wrote "White
Christmas" and "God Bless America."
of what relevance is this?
That the phrase "Happy Holidays" itself was never intended to be some
sort of secularist replacement for "Merry Christmas."
the intent behind berlin's song doesn't have much to do with the use of
HH by others, does it? It clearly *has* replaced MC ...
Post by Jon Enslin
It is just
another way to pass along greetings and goodwill during this time of
year.
It is that, but it isn't *just that*. If it were, why would anyone
suggest replacing MC - which is also another way to pass along
greetings, etc. with HH?
Post by Jon Enslin
And I will ask you, why does this bother you so much? Why do you care?
You're obviously more emotionally riled up about this than i am, so why
not start by answering these questions yourself?
Gotta love avoidance.

Jon
stephenj
2005-12-15 22:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
And the "skirmish" that you mention is even more laughable when you
look at the history of the phrase. "Happy Holiday" was a song that was
written by Irving Berlin. The same Irving Berlin who wrote "White
Christmas" and "God Bless America."
of what relevance is this?
That the phrase "Happy Holidays" itself was never intended to be some
sort of secularist replacement for "Merry Christmas."
the intent behind berlin's song doesn't have much to do with the use of
HH by others, does it? It clearly *has* replaced MC ...
Post by Jon Enslin
It is just
another way to pass along greetings and goodwill during this time of
year.
It is that, but it isn't *just that*. If it were, why would anyone
suggest replacing MC - which is also another way to pass along
greetings, etc. with HH?
Post by Jon Enslin
And I will ask you, why does this bother you so much? Why do you care?
You're obviously more emotionally riled up about this than i am, so why
not start by answering these questions yourself?
Gotta love avoidance.
LOL. I've explained why i bother to discuss the issue: it's not a big
one but it is a skirmish in a broader culture war, so it merits some
attention.

Your turn.
--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS
Jeff Davis
2005-12-15 16:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
It is??? I say "Happy Holidays" to many people. I have for years.
There are Christmas carroll\s that include the phrase.
Oh, and I am Christian with a Christmas tree in my house and religious
Christmas decorations all over the inside of my house. I have two
light up holiday deer on my lawn though...
I just don't see what the big deal is. Why do I care what Wal-Mart or
Target say on their displays? They just want my money no matter what
they say.
i don't think that it's a big deal either. but i don't think it's
'harmless' either. the replacement of MC with HH didn't evolve out of
thin air via natural market forces. it was almost certainly *prompted*
by adherents of non-christian faiths. that makes it part of a cultural
struggle for power.
A "cultural struggle for power??" Good lored, could you get more
melodramatic?
there's nothing melodramatic about that. there is a cultural struggle
for power in the USA, and this mc/hh thing is a skirmish in it.
Bullshit. There is no "cultural struggle."
You're kidding, right?
You're using the term capriciously and melodramatically. Culture
changes. It cannot possibly be static. Even in the narcoleptic middle
ages, the culture changed constanly. To talk about cultural change using
words like "skirmish" is to use military language for non-military
purposes. Yours and O'Reilly's language calls up images of armed camps
(personally, if you think of O'Reilly as Trentino in "Duck Soup" it
might fit) which is ludicrous.
stephenj
2005-12-15 17:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by stephenj
Post by Jon Enslin
Bullshit. There is no "cultural struggle."
You're kidding, right?
You're using the term capriciously and melodramatically.
LOL. Let's see.
Post by Jeff Davis
Culture
changes. It cannot possibly be static.
Yes.
Post by Jeff Davis
Even in the narcoleptic middle
ages, the culture changed constanly. To talk about cultural change using
words like "skirmish" is to use military language for non-military
purposes.
Are you saying cultural struggle doesn't exist and never exists? That
would be farcical.

Don't confuse periods of amorphous, unintended, evolutionary-like
"cultural change" with cultural changes that are prompted by agendas.
The latter are more accurately characterized by words like "struggle".
--
no excuses, play like a champion

- rule 76
rich hammett
2005-12-14 23:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
one thing i find funny about this is that many muslims and jews who are
strict "secularists" here in the USA, inisting on a very high wall of
separation between church and state, aren't nearly so uncomfortable with
the notion of - and often are quite financially supportive of -"jewish
states" and "islamic republics" back in the middle east.
And yet they live here...

rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
Jeff Davis
2005-12-14 23:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by estabanj
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean
atheists and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
Funny you should mention that. I remember a Philip Roth essay where he
talked about Irving Berlin's hatred of the goyim and Berlin's delight
that he, a Jew, had written the most successful Christmas carol.
(Berlin's hatred for goyim was fueled by the horrific way his marriage
to a non-Jewish woman was received by the lady's family. But is hatred
less hatred because of its origin?)
Post by estabanj
one thing i find funny about this is that many muslims and jews who are
strict "secularists" here in the USA, inisting on a very high wall of
separation between church and state, aren't nearly so uncomfortable with
the notion of - and often are quite financially supportive of -"jewish
states" and "islamic republics" back in the middle east.
That's a contradiction for them not us. The West finally prospered once
the theocracies withered. You'd think they'd take the hint.
estabanj
2005-12-15 05:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by estabanj
one thing i find funny about this is that many muslims and jews who
are strict "secularists" here in the USA, inisting on a very high wall
of separation between church and state, aren't nearly so uncomfortable
with the notion of - and often are quite financially supportive of
-"jewish states" and "islamic republics" back in the middle east.
That's a contradiction for them not us. The West finally prospered once
the theocracies withered. You'd think they'd take the hint.
it's not just a contradiction. it's indicative of a mindset that is, at
the least, hypocritical. and one that is aggressively "anti-" other
religions in the public sphere.

basically, what these kinds of jews and muslims (the kind that
aggressively support secularism here but support jewish or muslim
dominance back in the middle east) are saying is, "if we're in the
minority, then we want the state to treat our faith as equal (in terms
of public recognition, etc.) to the faith of the majority. but if we're
in the majority, then to hell with that - we want our faith to be
exalted above everyone else's in the form of a priviledged state
recognition".

here in the usa, folks like that shouldn't be taken seriously when they
speak about the benefits of church-state separation, etc. that's just a
cover for advancing the power/status of their religion in the public arena.
--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS
Kokopeli
2005-12-15 05:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian
it isn't "secularists" who are behind it, if by secular you mean atheists
and agnostics. it's adherents of other relgions.
one thing i find funny about this is that many muslims and jews who are
strict "secularists" here in the USA, inisting on a very high wall of
separation between church and state, aren't nearly so uncomfortable with
the notion of - and often are quite financially supportive of -"jewish
states" and "islamic republics" back in the middle east.
You and Henry Ford.
http://www.ety.com/berlin/ford1.htm

dw
Chris Mihos
2005-12-14 22:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
I'm reminded of Young Frankenstein: "Blucher!"
--
chris
"my point? #@&*! you, that's my point." -- Bucky Katt
James Schrumpf
2005-12-14 23:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Quiet, Chris Mihos <***@knowspaam.burro.astr.cwru.edu> -- I'm transmitting
rage.
Post by Chris Mihos
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
I'm reminded of Young Frankenstein: "Blucher!"
[whiiiiiinnny]
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
James Schrumpf
2005-12-14 23:05:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?

I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you think
_he_ does.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Eric Ramon
2005-12-14 23:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you think
_he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
Michael
2005-12-14 23:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Ramon
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you think
_he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
His stupid listeners believe it. There's genius for you.

- Demoncrat
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 00:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by Eric Ramon
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
His stupid listeners believe it. There's genius for you.
- Demoncrat
Well, there obviously is an effort to get "Christmas" out of the season.

Why else start calling Christmas trees "Holiday" trees? None of the
other holidays of the season (Kwaanza or Hannukah) use trees decorated in
that manner.

Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert? There are "winter holiday" songs that have nothing specific to
do with Christmas ("Jingle Bells," "Winter Wonderland", "Frosty the
Snowman"), but there are also Christmas carols, which are specifically
about Christmas and nothing but Christmas; so one wonders why the rewrite
for "Winter Holiday" use.

I've got no problem with stores and such saying "Happy Holidays,", when
there are three events sharing the timeframe. It's just that when actual
Christmas-specific activities and content get "revised" for "Winter
Holiday" use that I get cranky.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
leinbacker
2005-12-15 01:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Michael
Post by Eric Ramon
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
His stupid listeners believe it. There's genius for you.
- Demoncrat
Well, there obviously is an effort to get "Christmas" out of the season.
Why else start calling Christmas trees "Holiday" trees? None of the
other holidays of the season (Kwaanza or Hannukah) use trees decorated in
that manner.
Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert? There are "winter holiday" songs that have nothing specific to
do with Christmas ("Jingle Bells," "Winter Wonderland", "Frosty the
Snowman"), but there are also Christmas carols, which are specifically
about Christmas and nothing but Christmas; so one wonders why the rewrite
for "Winter Holiday" use.
I've got no problem with stores and such saying "Happy Holidays,", when
there are three events sharing the timeframe. It's just that when actual
Christmas-specific activities and content get "revised" for "Winter
Holiday" use that I get cranky.
I know what you mean, those pagens at Honda and their commerical "we
wish you a happy holiday".

But hey, the joke's on them, given that "holiday" is derived from "Holy
Day".
Vijay Ramanujan
2005-12-15 01:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert?
Geez, that story has more legs than Knute Rockne inventing the forward
pass.

They didn't "rewrite Silent Night" to get Christianity out of the
presentation. What they did was perform a song from a musical that the
school district had performed several times before. The musical was a
colaboration between a playwright and the musical director for a church
in LA (yes, I said church). Apparently they decided it would be fun to
use the melodies from well known Christmas carols as the basis for
their work.

http://delrich.home.mindspring.com/tree.html

(sounds like a ripoff of Charlie Brown's Christmas to me)

Unfortunately, that doesn't ratchet up the outrage very well, so the
people complaining just distorted the hell out of it.

Vijay R.
leinbacker
2005-12-15 04:22:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vijay Ramanujan
Post by James Schrumpf
Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert?
Geez, that story has more legs than Knute Rockne inventing the forward
pass.
They didn't "rewrite Silent Night" to get Christianity out of the
The Germans rewrote Pitt's Alma Mater to get the Panthers out of it.
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 06:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by leinbacker
Post by Vijay Ramanujan
Post by James Schrumpf
Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert?
Geez, that story has more legs than Knute Rockne inventing the forward
pass.
They didn't "rewrite Silent Night" to get Christianity out of the
The Germans rewrote Pitt's Alma Mater to get the Panthers out of it.
O Tannenbaum?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Vijay Ramanujan
2005-12-15 14:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Damn, I thought my actually pointing out you were working on bad info
might have been more response-worthy than Lein's joke, but I guess not.

Vijay R.
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 21:19:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vijay Ramanujan
Damn, I thought my actually pointing out you were working on bad info
might have been more response-worthy than Lein's joke, but I guess not.
Vijay R.
Oh. Well, I looked at the website and you were correct, so...

You're right!

But then again, it was Barney-ified, which may be even _more_ evil...
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
leinbacker
2005-12-15 15:51:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by leinbacker
Post by Vijay Ramanujan
Post by James Schrumpf
Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert?
Geez, that story has more legs than Knute Rockne inventing the forward
pass.
They didn't "rewrite Silent Night" to get Christianity out of the
The Germans rewrote Pitt's Alma Mater to get the Panthers out of it.
O Tannenbaum?
Pittsburgh Uber Alles
Jaybyrd
2005-12-15 16:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by leinbacker
Post by Vijay Ramanujan
Post by James Schrumpf
Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert?
Geez, that story has more legs than Knute Rockne inventing the forward
pass.
They didn't "rewrite Silent Night" to get Christianity out of the
The Germans rewrote Pitt's Alma Mater to get the Panthers out of it.
This is a truly wierd stuck button obsession that you have.
Jeff Davis
2005-12-15 01:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Michael
Post by Eric Ramon
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
His stupid listeners believe it. There's genius for you.
- Demoncrat
Well, there obviously is an effort to get "Christmas" out of the season.
Why else start calling Christmas trees "Holiday" trees? None of the
other holidays of the season (Kwaanza or Hannukah) use trees decorated in
that manner.
Why rewrite the words to "Silent Night" for use in a "Winter Holiday"
concert?
Well, the original was in German.
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 02:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Michael
Post by Eric Ramon
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
His stupid listeners believe it. There's genius for you.
- Demoncrat
Well, there obviously is an effort to get "Christmas" out of the season.
By whom? The government or the schools? Good. The retail industry?
Who cares.

I'm going to church on Christmas Eve...we are celebrating Christmas as
a family...why anyone would care a bit beyond that is truly amazing to
me.

Jon
rich hammett
2005-12-15 04:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Michael
Post by Eric Ramon
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
His stupid listeners believe it. There's genius for you.
Well, there obviously is an effort to get "Christmas" out of the season.
By whom? The government or the schools? Good. The retail industry?
Who cares.
I'm going to church on Christmas Eve...we are celebrating Christmas as
a family...why anyone would care a bit beyond that is truly amazing to
me.
As Fox's Xmas Superdefenders repeat OVER AND OVER AGAIN, it's only
a matter of time before we outlaw that, as well. Possibly this
week is the implication.

rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
T_Hull
2005-12-15 04:34:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by rich hammett
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Michael
Post by Eric Ramon
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
I don't think he does. I'm waiting for that Face in the Crowd moment
when he reveals his true feelings not knowing the microphone is still
on.
His stupid listeners believe it. There's genius for you.
Well, there obviously is an effort to get "Christmas" out of the season.
By whom? The government or the schools? Good. The retail industry?
Who cares.
I'm going to church on Christmas Eve...we are celebrating Christmas as
a family...why anyone would care a bit beyond that is truly amazing to
me.
As Fox's Xmas Superdefenders repeat OVER AND OVER AGAIN, it's only
a matter of time before we outlaw that, as well. Possibly this
week is the implication.
rich
But don't forget to order your FAUX News HOLIDAY gifts.




______________________________________________________
remove 'XXX" to reply.
Ralph Kennedy
2005-12-14 23:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you think
_he_ does.
I tend to agree with Enslin, that O'Reilly
probably couldn't give a shit what anyone calls
a tree, but he knows there's great ratings in
stirring up the peasants to a frenzy.

--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: ***@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Jeff Davis
2005-12-15 01:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you think
_he_ does.
I tend to agree with Enslin, that O'Reilly
probably couldn't give a shit what anyone calls
a tree, but he knows there's great ratings in
stirring up the peasants to a frenzy.
Artificial controversy. O'Reilly's gag here isn't that much different
than Sports Illustrated picking UK to win the national championship in
football for their pre-season issue.
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 02:47:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you think
_he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists because
only morons would think that and he definately isn't a moron. This is
his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's worth.

Jon
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 06:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists because
only morons would think that and he definately isn't a moron. This is
his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break to
Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday decorations, etc.,
just seem unconnected to you?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 11:48:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists because
only morons would think that and he definately isn't a moron. This is
his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break to
Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday decorations, etc.,
just seem unconnected to you?
First of all, I don't notice much of a change. I grew up with most of
those phrases to the best of my knowledge.

Second, why do you care? Does it harm you or your beliefs in any way?


Jon
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 21:20:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a
moron. This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's
worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break
to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
First of all, I don't notice much of a change. I grew up with most of
those phrases to the best of my knowledge.
Second, why do you care? Does it harm you or your beliefs in any way?
Jon
I yam old school. It bothers me on principle.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Jeff Davis
2005-12-15 13:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists because
only morons would think that and he definately isn't a moron. This is
his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break to
Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday decorations, etc.,
just seem unconnected to you?
I think you're either a) completely insincere or b) completely deluded.
"All the changes". You're seeing pattern amid enormous flux. And (what's
more) you've no basis to evaluate the change or the motives if there
were patterns. Christmas, as the current holiday has become, is
remorselessly anti-Christian. It needs to be changed.
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 21:22:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a moron.
This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break
to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
I think you're either a) completely insincere or b) completely
deluded. "All the changes". You're seeing pattern amid enormous flux.
And (what's more) you've no basis to evaluate the change or the
motives if there were patterns. Christmas, as the current holiday has
become, is remorselessly anti-Christian. It needs to be changed.
I've got 45 years of Christmases I remember to judge how things have
changed. That's a pretty good sample to go by.

So you prefer seeing Chrismas referred to as Winter Holiday? Just
asking.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Jeff Davis
2005-12-15 21:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a moron.
This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break
to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
I think you're either a) completely insincere or b) completely
deluded. "All the changes". You're seeing pattern amid enormous flux.
And (what's more) you've no basis to evaluate the change or the
motives if there were patterns. Christmas, as the current holiday has
become, is remorselessly anti-Christian. It needs to be changed.
I've got 45 years of Christmases I remember to judge how things have
changed. That's a pretty good sample to go by.
So you prefer seeing Chrismas referred to as Winter Holiday? Just
asking.
Repeat after me:
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.

Aieeeeee!!!!!
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 22:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a
moron. This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's
worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas
break to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
I think you're either a) completely insincere or b) completely
deluded. "All the changes". You're seeing pattern amid enormous flux.
And (what's more) you've no basis to evaluate the change or the
motives if there were patterns. Christmas, as the current holiday has
become, is remorselessly anti-Christian. It needs to be changed.
I've got 45 years of Christmases I remember to judge how things have
changed. That's a pretty good sample to go by.
So you prefer seeing Chrismas referred to as Winter Holiday? Just
asking.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST
DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT
JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST
DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST
DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT
JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST
DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
Aieeeeee!!!!!
It matters.

Sorry.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
Jeff Davis
2005-12-15 22:08:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a
moron. This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's
worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas
break to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
I think you're either a) completely insincere or b) completely
deluded. "All the changes". You're seeing pattern amid enormous flux.
And (what's more) you've no basis to evaluate the change or the
motives if there were patterns. Christmas, as the current holiday has
become, is remorselessly anti-Christian. It needs to be changed.
I've got 45 years of Christmases I remember to judge how things have
changed. That's a pretty good sample to go by.
So you prefer seeing Chrismas referred to as Winter Holiday? Just
asking.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST
DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT
JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST
DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST
DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT
JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST
DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
Aieeeeee!!!!!
It matters.
Sorry.
If everyone on the planet said "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry
Christmas" what would happen? If all of the angels echoed Happy
Holidays" along with them? If the mountains and seas and anvils and out
of tune pianos played thunderous swelling chords of heartwrenching music
like a twangy talking guitar and it all said, "Happy Holidays" instead
of "Merry Christmas" what would happen? Nothing. The world would be
exactly the same. No orphan would be left unattended. No widow would
shiver in her shawl. No state would swell or fall. No heart would be
less glad. No piety would be diminished or increased. No sweet tune
would fail to comfort the lonely. Nothing would be any different. It's
completely irrelevant to anything except the softcorepornographer
O'Reilly's intent to increase his ratings. And who cares about that?
O'Reilly doesn't really. He'd just think of something else to moan about.
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 22:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jeff Davis
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if
you think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a
moron. This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's
worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas
break to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
I think you're either a) completely insincere or b) completely
deluded. "All the changes". You're seeing pattern amid enormous
flux. And (what's more) you've no basis to evaluate the change or
the motives if there were patterns. Christmas, as the current
holiday has become, is remorselessly anti-Christian. It needs to be
changed.
I've got 45 years of Christmases I remember to judge how things have
changed. That's a pretty good sample to go by.
So you prefer seeing Chrismas referred to as Winter Holiday? Just
asking.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T
MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT
JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST
DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST
DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST
DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST
DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST
DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't
matter. It just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST
DOESN'T MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It
just doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T
MATTER.It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just
doesn't matter. It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.It
just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
Aieeeeee!!!!!
It matters.
Sorry.
If everyone on the planet said "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry
Christmas" what would happen? If all of the angels echoed Happy
Holidays" along with them? If the mountains and seas and anvils and
out of tune pianos played thunderous swelling chords of heartwrenching
music
like a twangy talking guitar and it all said, "Happy Holidays" instead
of "Merry Christmas" what would happen? Nothing. The world would be
exactly the same. No orphan would be left unattended. No widow would
shiver in her shawl. No state would swell or fall. No heart would be
less glad. No piety would be diminished or increased. No sweet tune
would fail to comfort the lonely. Nothing would be any different. It's
completely irrelevant to anything except the softcorepornographer
O'Reilly's intent to increase his ratings. And who cares about that?
O'Reilly doesn't really. He'd just think of something else to moan about.
YSB. AYB?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-15 17:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists because
only morons would think that and he definately isn't a moron. This is
his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break to
Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday decorations, etc.,
just seem unconnected to you?
Not unconnected... unimportant, and irrelevant - but not unconnected.
--
Aaron
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 21:23:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a
moron. This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's
worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break
to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
Not unconnected... unimportant, and irrelevant - but not unconnected.
Pehaps unimportant, and irrelevant, to you. Not to others.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-15 22:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you
think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a
moron. This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's
worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas break
to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
Not unconnected... unimportant, and irrelevant - but not unconnected.
Pehaps unimportant, and irrelevant, to you. Not to others.
As in everything one can attach unnecessary importance to whatever they
choose - just don't expect anyone to respect it.
--
Aaron
James Schrumpf
2005-12-15 22:20:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by a***@redshark.goodshow.net
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing
the 80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like
"Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings
genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if
you think _he_ does.
No, I truly don't believe that he thinks the oppression exists
because only morons would think that and he definately isn't a
moron. This is his schtick and he's playing it for all that it's
worth.
Jon
So all the changes of Chrismast tree to Holiday tree, Christmas
break to Winter Break, sales of Christmas decorations as Holiday
decorations, etc., just seem unconnected to you?
Not unconnected... unimportant, and irrelevant - but not
unconnected.
Pehaps unimportant, and irrelevant, to you. Not to others.
As in everything one can attach unnecessary importance to whatever
they choose - just don't expect anyone to respect it.
I thought the US was supposed to be a diverse, tolerant society?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Schrumpf http://www.hilltopper.net

We Must Protect this Couch!
a***@redshark.goodshow.net
2005-12-15 17:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Schrumpf
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
So you don't think he really believes it?
I'm not asking if _you_ think the "oppression" exists, just if you think
_he_ does.
I'm quite sure he doesn't believe it. The guy seems like an idiot at times,
but he is smart enough to know that the things he's said on this issue make
zero sense. I'm convinced it is all a publicity stunt (by all the groups
that are bitching about it)
--
Aaron
Charles Beauchamp
2005-12-15 03:04:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive has long
had a policy barring literally county employees from uttering the word
Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like yourself who "claims" to
be a christian (noting that your definition of christian is rather
dubious...don't care what the Bible says...think the purpose of the church
is more towards social work then spreading of the Gospel...and note that I
got this from your very own words) would pretend that this national movement
by the anti-Christian left is not real.
--
v/r Beau

I believe if you can't say something nice about somebody, you must be
talking about Hillary Clinton -- Jeff Foxworthy
Bryan S. Slick
2005-12-15 03:46:50 UTC
Permalink
At about Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:04:10 -0800, Charles Beauchamp was dragged
into the street and beaten by an angry mob for writing..

:Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like yourself who "claims" to
:be a christian

Is this more of you not being holier-than-thou, Charles?
--
Bryan S. Slick, onyx_hokie at yahoo dot com

"To those who have fought for it,
freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
Charles Beauchamp
2005-12-15 04:47:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryan S. Slick
At about Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:04:10 -0800, Charles Beauchamp was
dragged into the street and beaten by an angry mob for writing..
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like yourself who
"claims" to be a christian
Is this more of you not being holier-than-thou, Charles?
Not calling myself holy Slick. I am calling Enslin exactly what he is based
on what he says about himself. Wonder that you would have an issue with the
truth.
--
v/r Beau

I believe if you can't say something nice about somebody, you must be
talking about Hillary Clinton -- Jeff Foxworthy
d***@aol.com
2005-12-15 16:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Post by Bryan S. Slick
At about Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:04:10 -0800, Charles Beauchamp was
dragged into the street and beaten by an angry mob for writing..
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like yourself who
"claims" to be a christian
Is this more of you not being holier-than-thou, Charles?
Not calling myself holy Slick. I am calling Enslin exactly what he is based
on what he says about himself. Wonder that you would have an issue with the
truth.
--
v/r Beau
I believe if you can't say something nice about somebody, you must be
talking about Hillary Clinton -- Jeff Foxworthy
Actually, you are telling him that he is not a Christian. Which,
since he claims to be, means you are judging his faith.
rich hammett
2005-12-15 04:25:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive has long
had a policy barring literally county employees from uttering the word
Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like yourself who "claims" to
be a christian (noting that your definition of christian is rather
dubious...don't care what the Bible says...think the purpose of the church
is more towards social work then spreading of the Gospel...and note that I
got this from your very own words) would pretend that this national movement
by the anti-Christian left is not real.
Well, that answers the question--at least one moron believes
Fox.

rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
dave reid
2005-12-15 07:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by rich hammett
Post by Charles Beauchamp
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive
has long had a policy barring literally county employees from
uttering the word Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like
yourself who "claims" to be a christian (noting that your definition
of christian is rather dubious...don't care what the Bible
says...think the purpose of the church is more towards social work
then spreading of the Gospel...and note that I got this from your
very own words) would pretend that this national movement by the
anti-Christian left is not real.
Well, that answers the question--at least one moron believes
Fox.
Once again, Beauchamp is full of crap.

From 2001 (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/50272
_holiday12.shtml),

"The executive's intention was to ask people to be culturally sensitive to
their 13,000 fellow county employees. "I think it's real unfortunate that
anyone should twist that around," Ceis said.

"If someone says 'Merry Christmas,' that's terrific. If someone says 'Happy
Hanukkah,' that's fine, too," he said. "Everybody's free to express their
sentiment in an appropriate manner."


So "If someone says 'Merry Christmas,' that's terrific." is now, in
Charles twisted mind, a "policy barring literally county employees from
uttering the word Christmas".

dave
Ralph Kennedy
2005-12-15 20:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by dave reid
Post by rich hammett
Post by Charles Beauchamp
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive
has long had a policy barring literally county employees from
uttering the word Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like
yourself who "claims" to be a christian (noting that your definition
of christian is rather dubious...don't care what the Bible
says...think the purpose of the church is more towards social work
then spreading of the Gospel...and note that I got this from your
very own words) would pretend that this national movement by the
anti-Christian left is not real.
Well, that answers the question--at least one moron believes
Fox.
Once again, Beauchamp is full of crap.
From 2001 (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/50272
_holiday12.shtml),
"The executive's intention was to ask people to be culturally sensitive to
their 13,000 fellow county employees. "I think it's real unfortunate that
anyone should twist that around," Ceis said.
"If someone says 'Merry Christmas,' that's terrific. If someone says 'Happy
Hanukkah,' that's fine, too," he said. "Everybody's free to express their
sentiment in an appropriate manner."
So "If someone says 'Merry Christmas,' that's terrific." is now, in
Charles twisted mind, a "policy barring literally county employees from
uttering the word Christmas".
Lying or moran?

I vote moran.

--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: ***@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
dave reid
2005-12-15 21:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Kennedy
Lying or moran?
I vote moran.
Both?

dave
leinbacker
2005-12-15 04:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive has long
had a policy barring literally county employees from uttering the word
Christmas.
So does he have a same policy that bans employees from uttering
"independence", "thanksgiving", "New Years", "Martin Luther King", and
"memorial"?

Sounds a bit rediculous to have a staff forbidden from mentioning the
name of the official government recognized holiday.
rich hammett
2005-12-15 19:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by leinbacker
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive has long
had a policy barring literally county employees from uttering the word
Christmas.
So does he have a same policy that bans employees from uttering
"independence", "thanksgiving", "New Years", "Martin Luther King", and
"memorial"?
Sounds a bit rediculous to have a staff forbidden from mentioning the
name of the official government recognized holiday.
Sounds more like a lie...see another follow-up in this thread which
corrects Chaz's lie.

rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
Kokopeli
2005-12-15 05:28:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive has
long had a policy barring literally county employees from uttering the
word Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like yourself who
"claims" to be a christian (noting that your definition of christian is
rather dubious...don't care what the Bible says...think the purpose of the
church is more towards social work then spreading of the Gospel...and note
that I got this from your very own words) would pretend that this national
movement by the anti-Christian left is not real.
And yet...
http://dnr.metrokc.gov/dnrp/press/2005/1129christmas-trees.htm

And d00d, I live in the dead center of this Heart O' Darkness, and while I
can tell you there is most certainly tolerance bordering on endorsement of
anti-Christian behavior and attitude in this town, I know that there isn't
really a "war on Christmas," not around these parts. Trust me, if there
were, you'd know it.

Personally, I'm getting tired of the "WE ARE BEING PERSECUTED" meme going
around the evangelical and fundamentalist circles. In China, they still have
house churches. In Iran and Saudi, they still kill converts. Here, the worst
we have is stoopidarse anti-religion types with their stoopidarse bumper
stickers and "Holiday" sales to support a religious feast that has been so
secularized over the last 500 years that the Puritans outright banned it.
And this while the party in power is continually reminded that they're only
in place because "4 million" Christians voted them in. We got it pretty
easy, d00d.

And I can say Christmas, even around my Jewish and atheist cow orkers, and
we have a Christmas tree in the office (one of those fiber-optic ones).
You're just working for the wrong part of the government.

dw
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 11:45:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kokopeli
Personally, I'm getting tired of the "WE ARE BEING PERSECUTED" meme going
around the evangelical and fundamentalist circles. In China, they still have
house churches. In Iran and Saudi, they still kill converts. Here, the worst
we have is stoopidarse anti-religion types with their stoopidarse bumper
stickers and "Holiday" sales to support a religious feast that has been so
secularized over the last 500 years that the Puritans outright banned it.
And this while the party in power is continually reminded that they're only
in place because "4 million" Christians voted them in. We got it pretty
easy, d00d.
And I can say Christmas, even around my Jewish and atheist cow orkers, and
we have a Christmas tree in the office (one of those fiber-optic ones).
You're just working for the wrong part of the government.
You are wise.

Jon
Jon Enslin
2005-12-15 11:43:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Beauchamp
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the
80% of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy
Holidays" and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
I work at a location run by King County. The King County Executive has long
had a policy barring literally county employees from uttering the word
Christmas. Not a surprise that a secular twit like yourself who "claims" to
be a christian (noting that your definition of christian is rather
dubious...don't care what the Bible says...think the purpose of the church
is more towards social work then spreading of the Gospel...and note that I
got this from your very own words) would pretend that this national movement
by the anti-Christian left is not real.
Wow.

I am a Christian because I profess a belief in Jesus Christ. I never
said I don't care about the Bible - I just don't interpret it literally
through the lens of 21st Century thinking. And yes, I care much more
about using Christianity for social justice reasons rather than
evangelicalism.

If that isn't good enough for you, I really don't care.

Jon
dave reid
2005-12-15 15:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon Enslin
I am a Christian because I profess a belief in Jesus Christ. I never
said I don't care about the Bible - I just don't interpret it
literally through the lens of 21st Century thinking. And yes, I care
much more about using Christianity for social justice reasons rather
than evangelicalism.
If that isn't good enough for you, I really don't care.
Watch it....this is where Charles will now damn you to hell and call
you a "piece of shit".
All in a very Christian way, of course.

dave
Dennis
2005-12-15 18:13:07 UTC
Permalink
"Jon Enslin" <***@charter.net> You're digging it round, when it
aughta Be SQUARE
Post by Jon Enslin
I must admit, his whole idea that secular America is oppressing the 80%
of us who claim to be Christian by using phrases like "Happy Holidays"
and "Holiday Tree" is a touch of pure, ratings genious.
Jon
and by pulling this kind of stuff, he's marginalizing himself more and
more...

isn't he getting a bit old to be playing the part of "whiny teenager"?
--
"People who read the tabloids deserve to be lied to" - Jerry Seinfeld
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" - Will Durant
"We are drowning in information, while starving for wisdom." - E.O. Wilson
"the glass is not only half full the first half was delicious" --Me
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